Released On: 09 Sep 2020
Sally Pepper interviews Andrew Warneken
Sally Pepper:
A Derby man living with autism is urging people to support those with the condition as we head back to work and a sense of normality. Andrew [Warneken 00:00:10] says, going back to the office means you could be sitting at a different desk and be following a complete change of routine to the one you’ve had whilst working from home. Heading to the shops and wearing a mask can also cause distress for those living with the condition. So what can we do to help?
Sally Pepper:
Well, Andrew joins me now. Andrew, good morning.
Andrew Warneken:
Good morning.
Sally Pepper:
Tell me, how have the last six months been for you then?
Andrew Warneken:
A mix, really. I work from home normally, so being locked inside is not really a problem. Although, I have found it quite stressful, not just to be able to go outside and drive in particular. And regarding that, there’s been no significant change. I’ve not been able to go and see my parents up in Yorkshire for about five months, and now I can. So in that respect, it’s been half and half. It’s been a balance.
Sally Pepper:
So when we talk about the challenges faced by someone like you, living with autism, I mean, let’s be more specific then. What are the challenges for you compared to maybe what I might be facing?
Andrew Warneken:
Well, first of all, as you’ve already highlighted, there’s changes in routines. Particularly if you’re working in an office; maybe changes in what days you’re working and what hours you’re working; then there’ll be changes in procedures: how often to sanitise hands? Are there any requirements to wipe down your desks? Do you need to pack away your desk belongings at the end of the day? Has the desk moved in any way? Is there a one way system in and out of the office? And where and when to wear the mask? And personally, that is a challenge for me in its own right.
Sally Pepper:
Each individual who has autism, it can differ, can’t it? What you face, what the challenges are, can differ from one person to another, and the severity levels as well of the autism you have. But I know the routines thing is quite a big key thing, isn’t it, for most people with autism?
Andrew Warneken:
Absolutely.
Sally Pepper:
Because if you’re suddenly thrown into a situation that you weren’t expecting, you don’t recognise, what impact can that have, Andrew?
Andrew Warneken:
Oh, it can be, depending on the people, for me personally, it can have quite a significant effect. I get annoyed, I get angry, I get upset. And it doesn’t matter if it’s at work or otherwise, short notice changes can be very difficult to cope with.
Sally Pepper:
Even to the point of view of, and of course, this, again, differs from case to case, but if you were going to be one of those people who is now returning to work, as you say, you work from home, and all of a sudden your desk is in a different part of the office, in a different office altogether, if you’ve not been warned of that, that can be huge, can’t it?
Andrew Warneken:
Oh, completely. Yes. I mean, the unfamiliarity with being in an office, or even at a different location within an office. Because we have hypo or hyper sensitivities; for instance, are you facing a window when you’re hyper sensitive to light, like I am, or facing away? Are you relocated to an area where there’s sort of a noise that no one else can hear, but you can? A bit like a very small rattle in a car that you can hear, but no one else can. Even the desk; has the desk changed? Has the touch and texture of the desk and the chair changed? That can be a real problem for some. Less so for me but nevertheless, it is very much a common trait.
Andrew Warneken:
So it’s all these things that employers need to be aware of. And again, as you highlighted earlier, not everyone has these particular sensitivities, but everyone has, invariably, some of these particular sensitivities at different capacities.
Sally Pepper:
So the key here is good communication, isn’t it? Because of course, the person with autism needs to be communicating to their employer, “These are my needs. This is what I need you to do for me”, because we can’t guess, can we?
Andrew Warneken:
No, and I’m an advocate of meeting halfway. The autistic individual has to make it recognised that he is, or she is. But if you’re my age, who’s 50, I wasn’t diagnosed until three years ago. So the likes of people my age possibly won’t know that they are autistic. All that they’ll realise is that they have, I would say, idiosyncrasies and that a collective of these idiosyncrasies that may not be easily explained.
Sally Pepper:
Yes. Such as? Give us some examples, Andrew.
Andrew Warneken:
Well, you know, people might line up their pens in a particular order. I’ll give you one that I do, which is completely out of the office environment. I’ve metal spinning tops that I got for my birthday and I’ve lined them all up in weight order.
Sally Pepper:
Wow.
Andrew Warneken:
So I know the weights and I’ve lined them up all in their weight order. And whilst they all look very similar, I know that they’re different. I can feel this by touch and weight; so things like that.
Sally Pepper:
And if you came to them and somebody had moved them around? What does that do?
Andrew Warneken:
That is quite annoying.
Sally Pepper:
Yes.
Andrew Warneken:
Yes. It is.
Sally Pepper:
To anger levels? I mean, some of these things, I suppose that’s not the greatest example, but some things will obviously make you very angry, won’t they?
Andrew Warneken:
It will. I mean, it’ll annoy me, and if it continues, it will make me angry. But it’s more the individual. And I think, obviously, like lots of things like this, if it’s deliberate, then there’s obviously more of a malice intent behind it.
Sally Pepper:
How has it been with regards to, I mean, are you exempt from wearing masks?
Andrew Warneken:
In theory, yes, I am, because I have a hidden disability, and also, I have asthma, so that, I guess, makes me exempt. I actually do wear masks, particularly when I go in and out of shops very quickly. To me, a mask, it doesn’t matter what the material feels like, it’s like it has thousands of pins / needles sticking into my face. And when I mentioned it to my doctor, she explained that this is a very good indicator of a hyper sensitivity I have, but I didn’t know I had it until now.
Sally Pepper:
Right. So I’m intrigued then, Andrew, because obviously, you’re still wanting to do your bit, but obviously, that’s very uncomfortable for you to wear a mask for that reason. So if you have had moments where you’ve not worn a mask, do you get looks from people? Do people automatically assume you’re just kind of flouting the rules?
Andrew Warneken:
Yes. Can I give you an example? I was in a big Derby shop last Bank Holiday Monday. Can I say it?
Sally Pepper:
Yeah, go on.
Andrew Warneken:
Okay. I was in Costco with my wife, and neither of us have to wear a mask, and we were getting some rather strange looks from pretty much all the other customers. And then there was a lady, an employer, walking around, and she came up to us and spoke to us, and then immediately realised we were wearing a hidden disability indicator. I have a little wristband and my wife has a sort of lanyard around her neck. And it was fine. You know, she completely understood. It was not a problem at all.
Sally Pepper:
Good. So with regards to the staff in the shop, that was very well handled, but you’re going to face this … I mean, I’m sure you’ve faced this all through life. You know, when it is, as you described it there, a hidden disability, then people don’t stop and think, do they? Human nature isn’t stop and think, “Okay. There’s probably a reason this man is doing this.” We just automatically think, “Oh, well, why are you getting away with that, and we’re not?”
Andrew Warneken:
Yeah. And that’s part of the problem, I guess, with all hidden disabilities, not just autism, is that it’s not obvious. We don’t have crutches, we don’t have wheelchairs or false limbs, or whatever. It’s not obvious. And hence, this mechanism of wearing these wristbands or lanyards, or whatever, I find quite useful. And it has made a difference even in my local shop in town, the staff have been, on occasions, quite helpful to me.
Sally Pepper:
Which is good to hear. That’s great to hear.
Sally Pepper:
Andrew, what can we be doing? What do you want to say to employers, to members of the public? How can we best support you, Andrew, and people with autism?
Andrew Warneken:
Okay. Well, first of all, with regarding employers, is you have to know your employees and that’s a given, I think, regarding all employers to employees. Next thing is to ask questions. And the important thing about asking questions is make sure that you ask the question that you want to ask, not ones that are open to interpretation i.e be absolutely precise in what you say, because we often, mostly, in my case, always, take things completely literally. So if you ask the wrong question, you’ll get the wrong answer. And not only that, when we do reply, you need to listen and not hear what you want to hear. Listen and hear what is actually being said, because we don’t flower it up. We don’t tell things that are superfluous to the question. We actually say things as they are.
Sally Pepper:
Yeah. So really, it is, as we started this conversation, about better communication, isn’t it?
Andrew Warneken:
Indeed. Yes It’s all about that. Now, lots of people don’t actually know how to do it. And indeed, until a few years ago, I didn’t. So it’s not a blame, it’s just an education. But you need to listen.
Sally Pepper:
Yeah, absolutely. Which is why we’re talking to you today. Lovely to have a catch up with you, Andrew.
Andrew Warneken:
Thank you.
Sally Pepper:
How do you feel with these … ? I mean, #lockdown2 is trending on Twitter, these new rules being imposed again, and we feel like we’re being restricted again. Does that worry you, that you feel like we’ve been starting to return to normality and maybe we might be facing another lockdown? Does that trouble you?
Andrew Warneken:
Yes, it does. But more probably as a father than as an individual. My daughter’s just gone back to Year 11 and how do you explain the fact that she’s in a class full of 20, 30 people and then she’ll go home and can’t see any of them? Or only six of them?
Sally Pepper:
Yes. I’ve got the exact same problem. No, I’ve had exactly the same conversation with my two sons this morning. It’s tough, isn’t it? It is tough.
Andrew Warneken:
Yes.
Sally Pepper:
Andrew, all the best.
Andrew Warneken:
We’re all confused about it.
Sally Pepper:
Yes, well, I think we all are. We are going to talk about that a little later in the show, so maybe we’ll help with some of the confusion.
Sally Pepper:
Andrew, great to talk to you and great to have a catch up as well.
Sally Pepper:
Andrew Warneken, of course … Well, just raising awareness really, and showing us all how we can be a little more helpful to people with hidden disabilities, but particularly for Andrew, for people with autism.